This Is the New US-Only Porsche Racer

"Bakkster, touring car driver" (Bakkster)
08/09/2013 at 18:23 • Filed to: motorsports, 911, uscr, gt, porsche cup

With the consolidation between Grand-Am and ALMS next year, Porsche needed a new cheap customer car to replace the old cars everyone was running this year. Instead of going to the new 2013 Porsche Cup car, !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! with an extra 200cc of displacement.

The car will also be equipped with paddle shifters and come standard with the series-mandated aero bits for which the car has been optimized. Beyond that, the car is mostly similar to the European spec 911 Cup car, with the changes being primarily to take advantage of the class rules here rather than to build a whole new car.

DISCUSSION (58)

nobody > Bakkster, touring car driver
08/09/2013 at 18:26

Kinja'd!!!

This is also the only time we'll see Michelins on it, since GTD will be a Conti-spec series.

Bakkster, touring car driver > nobody
08/09/2013 at 18:30

Good catch, that's actually pretty funny. Even now they run Yokohamas.

Nerd-Vol > Bakkster, touring car driver
08/09/2013 at 18:33

For some reason that looks like an RC car. It might just be the scale of the background throwing me off.

desertdog5051 > Bakkster, touring car driver
08/09/2013 at 18:43

Call me old fashioned, but I liked having 2 sports car series. I think ALMS was far and away the best.

I just don't trust NASCAR to go in the right direction. (hope I'm wrong) Don Panoz has his reasons for the merger, but I don't see them. This will all have to go through a season before we can make concrete judgements.

BullManUGA > Bakkster, touring car driver
08/09/2013 at 18:59

Boo. Another one series in the world spec 911. It makes no sense at all.

BullManUGA > desertdog5051
08/09/2013 at 19:00

His reasons are "I want money."

desertdog5051 > BullManUGA
08/09/2013 at 19:05

May be correct. Sad to think that the founder of the best sports car series in this country would sell out. Oh well, we'll have to wait and see.

BullManUGA > desertdog5051
08/09/2013 at 19:07

Maybe it was, "I want money for my awful race car that I'm building since the last one was even worse and I spent all my money."

AbigGRNboot > Bakkster, touring car driver
08/09/2013 at 19:20

Obligatory...'MURICA!

Kinja'd!!!

Bakkster, touring car driver > desertdog5051
08/09/2013 at 19:24

We do have two sports car series.

http://oppositelock.jalopnik.com/world-challeng…

!!! UNKNOWN CONTENT TYPE !!!

I'm personally looking forward to Le Mans spec cars going back to Daytona, and hoping we see 70+ car grids there again in the near future.

Bakkster, touring car driver > BullManUGA
08/09/2013 at 19:27

I guess it depends how much it costs compared to the European one. If the costs are the same as any other 911 Cup car, but it's optimized for USCR, then that's a darn good reason for Porsche.

So long as it doesn't stop someone bringing a Euro-spec car and being able to race it at Daytona I don't see an issue,none of the 911 Cup teams went to Europe anyway.

Stef Schrader > Bakkster, touring car driver
08/09/2013 at 21:08

Dagnabbit, this (even though that car looks like a hoot) is everything I DON'T like about the direction of USCR. "Hey, guys, instead of keeping any ties with any worldwide series or classes, we're just gonna do our own thing and be less relevant to big races like Le Mans."

Also, that logo design is still turrible.

996C2 > Bakkster, touring car driver
08/09/2013 at 21:48

With the exception of missing a prototype class... ANOTHER reason why race fans will be flocking to World Challenge and it will ROCK in 2014 compared to this watered down GT class they are coming up with. There was a great fear among ALMS fans that this would happen - that the rocket-ship GT2 ALMS cars would be done away with by those idiots in Daytona and now it appears that this fear has come to pass. It's basically this years 997 based chassis with some updates. Guy's in PCA's club race groups will have about the same equipment.

Meanwhile over in WC land: They have just announced they will allow ALL FIA GT3 class machinery and Audi, Mercedes, Viper, Cadillac, Porsche, Volvo, Corvette and Ford fans are all getting woodies waiting for the 2014 season to begin.

This new 'unified' series is nothing but a rehashed Grand Am series. They will soon create rules that basically do away with P2 class cars so that everyone pretty much has to run those abortion DP chassis. Congratulations - guess the Daytona boys will have more empty seats in the future.

OneFastPuertoRican > Stef Schrader
08/09/2013 at 23:01

I can write an essay about how dreadful that logo is, but I'm pretty sure half of Oppo already knows this.

Bakkster, touring car driver > 996C2
08/09/2013 at 23:14

This isn't replacing the GTE cars, it's the upgrade to the GTC car that has a bigger engine and paddle shifts compared to the Cup cars in Europe. Remember that GTD is a bit slower than World Challenge GT, but USCR is keeping GTE unchanged. The Vettes, Vipers, BMWs, Ferraris, etc we love about ALMS will be unchanged.

Bakkster, touring car driver > Stef Schrader
08/09/2013 at 23:16

The one class that had any significant link to Le Mans (GTE) is staying unchanged. The Vettes and Vipers will still be running basically unadulterated.

The GTC and Grand Am GT classes didn't have significant ties to Europe to start with.

Stef Schrader > Bakkster, touring car driver
08/10/2013 at 02:29

That's good. I guess I'm mostly annoyed that there's no LMP1s running in the series anymore. Me gusta LMP1s.

ThatbastardKurtis > desertdog5051
08/10/2013 at 08:50

No, you are correct, I don't trust NASCAR to do the right thing either...why would they? Their top product is NASCAR, and they would LOVE for sports car racing to be just like that...and they would love to stifle innovation (it's the NASCAR way).

Just wear your damn mask... > BullManUGA
08/10/2013 at 08:54

Or more to the point, "I don't want to burn more money."

alan666 > Bakkster, touring car driver
08/10/2013 at 08:56

It won't be USA only because surely ALMS teams have to have cars that can be eligible to compete in LeMans if they earn the right for entry ?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2013_24_H…

Stef Schrader > BullManUGA
08/10/2013 at 09:20

Too bad this doesn't mean there'll be a new RS America for track nerd/road use. That would actually be kind of cool.

MisterBoston > BullManUGA
08/10/2013 at 09:49

Pretty sure Don and family are doing just fine since Elan sold last week for 8.6 billion. He has done a ton for racing in the US and probably wanted one top performing brand instead of the confusing list of acronyms.

jedimario > Stef Schrader
08/10/2013 at 09:57

This is replacing the Porsche GT cars that had no ties to Le Mans at all...

jedimario > 996C2
08/10/2013 at 09:59

Reading, can you do it?

jedimario > alan666
08/10/2013 at 10:00

Not for this car. The GT LM class will be eligible for Le Mans, though. This will be the GT Daytona 911, while the GT LM 911 will be the new RSR.

dataPOG > jedimario
08/10/2013 at 10:28

Passion tends to blind those who have a lot of it...I used to get just as worked up but I've mellowed out as I've gotten older.

Ninja-GUY > Bakkster, touring car driver
08/10/2013 at 11:05

Oh the irony.

"vettes and vipers running unadulterated."

Ninja-GUY > 996C2
08/10/2013 at 11:07

yeahhh let me know when they stop BOP-ing just about everything and force them to run street engines.

Equana > desertdog5051
08/10/2013 at 11:26

His reasons are that there is not enough sponsorship money to support both series. Neither can continue racin' on rich guys' money.

TheHondaBro > Bakkster, touring car driver
08/10/2013 at 11:32

Kinja'd!!!

Camber used properly. Fuck off, boy racers

WagonDan > Bakkster, touring car driver
08/10/2013 at 11:51

Kinja'd!!!

Nice photoshop

996C2 > jedimario
08/10/2013 at 12:01

Yes I can. Let me know why you think a 4.0L 997 RS based copy is up to current 2014 991 RSR GT3 FIA spec will you?

AMCRedWhiteBlue > Bakkster, touring car driver
08/10/2013 at 12:25

Contemporary version of old Trans Am? Just as much fun. :)

BullManUGA > Just wear your damn mask...
08/10/2013 at 12:48

You must not have seen the Delta Wing "race" this year.

SirRingo > Equana
08/10/2013 at 13:06

This. I love both series to death, but one look at the dearth of entries in the ALMS P-classes should be all you need to understand the reasons. Scant years ago it was the same story in GT1 until they made the very savvy restructuring into the cheaper and more accessible GT-Pro and GT-Am classes, which has brought us some of the finest sports car racing the world over...

DIRTEE30 > Bakkster, touring car driver
08/10/2013 at 13:12

The 911 looks stunning in red, white, and blue. I like it!

Bakkster, touring car driver > alan666
08/10/2013 at 13:22

This is the class below the GTs that go to Le Mans. It is equivalent to the current Grand Am cars.

Bakkster, touring car driver > Stef Schrader
08/10/2013 at 14:00

Problem there is nobody has been running them in the US anyway. Hard to justify keeping a class that's already unused.

Lyle Petersminkle > nobody
08/10/2013 at 15:39

Tires are tires, guys. It doesn't matter if the series is running Michelins, Continentals, Coopers, Hankooks, Sunnys, Fuzions, etc. Are we going to complain about the sponsors on the car next?

Let's focus on what matters, the cars!

Hifrequency > Stef Schrader
08/10/2013 at 15:57

Car looks good but the decorating scheme is just cheesy, all that's left now are some 32" rims to complete the package, just gross.

nobody > Lyle Petersminkle
08/10/2013 at 16:10

I'm not complaining, just pointing out something interesting.

Lyle Petersminkle > nobody
08/10/2013 at 16:50

My bad, I hope you didn't think I was attacking you. I understand your intention. Mine was only to say that if a series uses the same tire, then everyone uses that same tire, and it becomes a non factor. I did a poor job of explaining my intention, I apologize.

Stef Schrader > jedimario
08/10/2013 at 17:17

D'oh. Should've clicked on the article and read it was GTC.

Just wear your damn mask... > BullManUGA
08/10/2013 at 18:14

Kinja'd!!!

Not this year, no.

BullManUGA > Just wear your damn mask...
08/10/2013 at 18:33

That DW is infinitely different than the ALMS DW. Different engine and tires. It's slow and unreliable. It's like if Ferrari gave you a 458 body and told you to build an engine yourself and buy some tires for it.

jedimario > 996C2
08/10/2013 at 18:56

The "GT2" ALMS cars are staying as-is. Our (ALMS fans') fears have not been realized.

Carrera RSR > 996C2
08/11/2013 at 00:59

The RSR in Europe that you are talking about is a "GT2" type car. This one we see pictured is not a 997 in any way shape or form (other than the old Mezger engine block). The chassis is all 991 GT3, and is essentially the same exact thing that customer racing teams will be getting in Europe, and what they use for the Mobil 1 Supercup. This is the car we will see in the USCR "GT3" spec class, so it should NOT be on par with the RSR, it should be slower.

As far as the new "GTLM" class that we will have in the USCR, the 991 GT3 RSR WILL be making an appearance eventually, if not next year the year after.

Also, a prototype class still will exist. Two actually. P2 and DP will merge, while LMPC will be a standalone. With that said there will then be two GT classes.

Not really sure what you are complaining about. Simply put, the Porsche 991 race cars they get in Europe are essentially the exact same as the ones we will be getting here in the U.S.

996C2 > Carrera RSR
08/11/2013 at 14:29

I guess I have conflict as I know several people losing jobs whom are with ALMS teams and officials and I don't trust some of the people from Daytona. Your comments are noted and welcomed. I should also note that final spec's have not been released yet - the P2 guy's I hear are worried they can't use carbon brakes and will wear a lot of weight as well.

Nick drives Stick (not Stig) > Bakkster, touring car driver
08/11/2013 at 16:30

As far as I remember, the GT3 Cup car is about $250,000... Will this be cheaper?

Bakkster, touring car driver > Nick drives Stick (not Stig)
08/11/2013 at 17:43

Probably roughly the same price, but more competitive in the GTD class now that the Cup cars need to compete against GT3 and Grand Am GT machinery.

Carrera RSR > 996C2
08/11/2013 at 21:49

Well on those points I could agree. I wish they'd make DP cars faster instead of slowing down P2 cars.

Bakkster, touring car driver > Nick drives Stick (not Stig)
08/12/2013 at 09:18

According to this, $270k.

http://www.racer.com/2014-porsche-9…

Not a bad deal, since the spec aero all the GTD cars run costs about $20k, and this gives the car the same engine as the GT3-spec 911 but significantly cheaper ( the GT3 car runs $405k ). This might be the cheapest car to run in the class and being purpose built should be solidly competitive.

996C2 > Carrera RSR
08/12/2013 at 10:17

P1 Class (to be killed off) was 8 seconds faster then the fastest DP this past weekend at Road America.

Fastest P2 class car was 2.5 secs a lap quicker then fastest DP.

Fastest ALMS GT2 was 7 seconds faster then fastest Grand Am GT class.

So the new GTD class Porsche is pretty much GTC machinery with updates? What a joke. $170K to run around all day looking in your mirrors and perhaps passing the odd GX class car? Why would private teams running Mazda, Chevy, BMW, Ferrari and Porsche equipment in the current Grand Am GT class even consider running in the new USCR GTD class? They were used to getting pretty good TV coverage in the current TV package and next year they will be reduced to the coverage that GTC get in ALMS? Other then prototypes - the attention will be on the fights in the GTLM class, NOT a Stevenson Camaro. This is why I see some of these teams, move over to World Challenge.

Carrera RSR > 996C2
08/12/2013 at 14:12

It wouldn't be much different then when GT1 existed. That class got a lot of attention, and so did the GT2 class.

As far as GTD goes, it will be all the current Grand Am GT cars. The Porsches will mostly be the updated 991 chassis car, not just slightly updated 997s.

It makes sense tha ALMS GT2 was faster than Grand Am GT because they are two different classes, and are intended to stay that way.

I agree with you that it would be a shame to see the GTD class get only as much coverage as GTC, but I don't think that'd be the case. Actually at the race yesterday, they did a lot of GTC coverage, and there was some very intense, close racing between those cars. With the battles in GT2 and GTC that was one of the most exciting races in a while. I think if you took GTC and added in even more cars like the 458, R8, Corvette, etc., then it would make for a really exciting racing series alongside the GTLM class.

And also I don't know what you think, but I think the prototype racing in the ALMS has gone stale. There isn't really any competition in P1 any more, the P2 competition is kind of boring because there is absolutely nothing cutting edge or exciting about the cars, and as far as PC goes, I don't believe they even cover that class that much. It will be much more interesting to see DP and P2 cars matched, I just hope the DP cars are sped up, and not P2 slowed down.

996C2 > Carrera RSR
08/12/2013 at 19:24

I agree with you about the P1 - they priced themselves out of existence and you could just see the manufacturer's accountants asking the marketing department to prove their worth. But back in the day, with Audi, the Spyder's and when the Lola's actually had an engine with power they were a great show. Sebring a couple of years back for example. Now? It's been on life support mainly because there was no ROI for the huge outlay of money and of course the lack of network TV was finally the last nail. ALMS seemed to be channeling Champ Car in that department.

As far as more teams joining the Porsche groups? I don't know if they are all sitting on the fence for rules or if the economy sucks really bad and they are still running around getting the funding. I run into people from AIM every once in awhile so I'll have to ask them if they plan to run the 458 next year or not. I noticed they put Kenny Wilden in the car on the weekend (my first instructor) and I know he doesn't bring a lot of cash - just a lot of speed so I assume he was a fill in?

I heard Bob Stallings and Spirit of Daytona group along with a couple of others are bound and determined to see the P2 class be saddled with weight and mandated steel rotors - despite the fact that Ryan Dalziel from Starworks (who have run DP's and P2's) said over a season the carbon is cheaper. Sounds like a lot of horse trading going on and people defending turf.

Carrera RSR > 996C2
08/12/2013 at 21:53

Well whatever happens with the new series, I hope they don't just end up hacking up both series' to make them fit and then ruin the racing.

Stef Schrader > Hifrequency
08/13/2013 at 11:04

Or THESE!

Kinja'd!!!

Hifrequency > Stef Schrader
08/13/2013 at 11:18

Forgot about those nice find!